Shelley: And of course. You know how you earned that designation did not just stop there just all that you have done off the field as far as you know as successful as you were academically even with undiagnosed learning issues that you succeeded even in spite of those. Know excepting those and making the best of them and not using it as a crutch. But finding a way you know how to process things differently. But it's it's not better or worse but just different.
Shelley: And then of course with you know I think the thing that makes me proudest of you is your journey and maintenance of sobriety and just that the path that you have traveled in order to get to that place and to maintain it is just. Yes. And nothing short of miraculous in my opinion. And just now you know I'm 40 some years old. And the relationship that we have now I didn't know what we were missing out on. You know I just I didn't know differently. And just to see him come more and more into your sobriety.
You know that your personality, your humor, your intellect, your compassion, your love. Yeah I didn't know that I didn't have a sister until I had a sober sister. So just being so much more present and engaged in our relationship that.
Steph: That's a that's a qualification enough. Thank you, sister. All right that's hard to follow. But we shall carry on. How do you define vulnerability?
Steph: Sorry how do I define vulnerability?
Steph: You define it. Yeah. I know you're a word person not the what sister.
Shelley: I can't I can't just say, Brenee Brown.
Steph: If that's your definition. Not the Webster definition. What does vulnerability mean to you?
Shelley: So it's being honest and candid with yourself about who you are and being able to share your authentic self with other people. And in that process that they feel you've created the safe space that they then can do the same for you. And being able to have those you know deeper more substantial conversations.
Steph: What's the most vulnerable thing that you've done athletically?
Shelley: Walking back on to the field hockey team. Second semester of my junior year.
Steph: I'm going to put a pin in that one will come back to it. I would love for you to tell us a little bit more about the journey and we circle back here. What's the most vulnerable thing that you've done personally?
Shelley: Yeah I mean a few things come to mind I would say sharing the sisters' story with you.
Steph: The book?
Shelley: And yes the and then yeah I would say in a sharing kind of mind my authentic self with people closest to me as far as you know my sexuality and who I'm currently in a relationship with and the serious nature of it.
Steph: Very good. All right.
Steph: How do you define everyday courage or bravery? You know does that differ from vulnerability?
Shelley: These are great questions sister. Did you come up come up with them on your own?
Steph: It's a culmination of a bunch of different sources and influences. As you referenced earlier, one of our muses and I guess vulnerability inspirations fellow Houstonian. Ms. B. Brown had a lot of influence in here. Yes.
Shelley: So the question at hand is how would I define courage on a daily basis?
Shelley: So courage on a daily basis or the courage to be authentic self and to as Anson Dorrance with UNC women's soccer says "engage in the never-ending ascension of personal development and growth." So finding a way to get just a little bit better every single day.
Steph: I like that one. And one that feels really familiar to me on that level is the striving for progress rather than perfection and that perfection is unattainable.
Shelley: That you're not comparing yourself to some absolute standard but a relative standard is you know becoming the very best version that you can be. Does that sound familiar sister?
Shelley: You know if you're comparing apples to oranges and you're an Apple don't try to be an orange. Be the best damn apple you can possibly be.
Steph: Right. Yes. You compare that to Fuji Apple or Red Delicious or a Macintosh.
Steph: Yes indeed.
Shelley: Embrace it. Yeah.
Steph: Who's the most courageous or bravest person you know and why?
Shelley: You sister for the aforementioned story I shared regarding your sobriety.
Steph: Thank you.
Steph: It continues to be a compliment, and it means a lot to me in return to develop that to have our friendship and sisterhood evolve in that way so not to be not to be overstated.
Shelley: Yes.
Steph: The bravest thing that you've done? Is that different from the most vulnerable thing that you've done?
Steph: Yeah. I think just from our family standpoint reconnecting with my siblings as adults. So having a relationship with Scot and his family and a relationship with you and your family. And you know being able to connect with Kiki and Gaki as you know is still their daughter but their adult daughter.
Steph: Yeah it's been pretty neat. How do you find that you find the courage to do that brave or courageous or vulnerable thing?
Shelley: Yeah. Utter desperation.
Steph: I mean it's our greatest teacher.
Shelley: I think I've gotten back from a family holiday gathering and was so exasperated and John Blanchard was like... So my boss at the time a senior associate AG at UNC and he said I don't mean to overstep my bounds but my family. You know we check in with a therapist every now and again and you know I'd be happy to share her her name with you and her contact information and it was just such a relief to have someone with whom I could share these things, my frustrations you know what, what I wanted to improve about the family dynamic and knowing that I'm the only thing that I can control and that equation I can't control people. But knowing what are the things that trigger me how I can respond to it and giving me skills to be better able to be a part of it.
Shelley: So it's either not making the situation worse or in whatever way shape or form. You know helping to mend bridges and things of the sort. So yes shout out to John Blanchard and Kathleen Fitzgerald.
Steph: Excellent.
Steph: When are you at your happiest?
Shelley: So I think you know professionally it's being in my zone of excellence or zone of genius And you know when I'm organizing and developing and bringing structure to something that lacks structure and kind of having a clear sense of organization. You know helping student-athletes grow and evolve. You know personally, it's being able to spend time with you and Miyules. And then of course time with our nieces and nephew and Chelsea Ann Pemberton and her kittens.
Steph: Greatest accomplishment on the field and greatest accomplishment off the field?
Shelley: On the field, helping Michigan field hockey to a share of the big ten regular season championship. And then off the field.
Steph: And just a note there. You know why was that significant?
Shelley: Because it had never been done before that it was the first of many firsts. And being able to show to the alumni of the program you know stand on their shoulders and reach that new level and to help them feel a part of that accomplishment and to help set the program on that course that many many firsts. The rest of the firsts, Sister, you happened to be a part of and so the first outright regular-season championship and big tournament championship and making it to the NCAA tournament and then making it to the final four and the championship game. And of course, the first national championship won by a team sport at the University of Michigan teams.
Steph: Female team sport.
Shelley: Yeah. And then off the field kind of divide that into personally and professionally. So professionally, the work that I do as the director of the leadership academy at UNC Chapel Hill that it's an organization that is the first of its kind in college athletics. And the work that we do and the help that we provide student-athletes and coaches to you know just one of the many areas that contribute to their own on field and off-field success.
Shelley: And me personally, I would go back to the relationships that I've developed with the people family members and how that has translated into my own personal life of being able to be you know true to myself. Knowing who I am and who I love. And to be in a healthy, happy, loving relationship.
Steph: Very cool sister.
Steph: You could change one thing about your immediate community what would it be?
Shelley: Yeah. For family to be closer You know I very much enjoyed that when we were babysitting the Tangley Johnsons in the spring of getting you know walking Scotty Johnson to his monkey class. Picking up the girls from school and having an after-school snack with them. And you know being able to go on walks and runs with you and Miyoo. Yeah.
Steph: So both geographically and figuratively.
Steph: Yeah.
Steph: OK. What principles do you live by?
Shelley: I take those to mean core values.
Steph: Yes.
Shelley: And so you know a sense of integrity. You know that who I am and what I say in one context is consistent across all contexts. You know whether you know it publicly or privately a sense of development is always finding you know that never-ending attention always finding a way to get that to get better. You know not being complacent or stagnant and then perseverance.
Shelley: So you know that championships are not won by a plan A or plan B it usually plan e, f or g. So being able to if something doesn't work. Finding another way to go at it and to you know continue to figure out what's working what's not working what you would do the same or differently. You know learning from that and being able to apply it moving forward.
Steph: And how do you practice those? What does it look like in your daily life?
Shelley: Yes. So. Integrity. It's. If student-athletes when they see me around the office you know in the course of a day, and you know if they might encounter it in you know Chapel Hill the small college town where they encounter me kind of outside of that context that there's not this you know that there's consistency in who I am at work is who I am when they see me. On the weekend and then with development you know engaging in professional development from one standpoint and I colleague of mine in graduate school came across the spare professional development model spare is an acronym. So the "S" is self-awareness. The "P" is planning. "A" is accountability "R" is research, and "E" is evaluation. And so seeing a more robust understanding of professional development that is not just going to your industry's National Convention in the summer in reading books. I mean it certainly is.
Shelley: It would go to the "e" of spare, but there are a lot more other ways to be able to take advantage of that and especially being on a college campus. Those opportunities abound. But you have to take your own initiative to go out and seek them, but they are there. And then personally you know certainly weekly sessions with a therapist help with that
Steph: Excellent. So we reached the end of the question period a couple of turns out a couple of questions are a little bit redundant so I pull this out and we you've successfully completed 28 questions. Thank you, sister.
Shelley: Off the hot seat.
Steph: So there a few things that I'd love to dig into a little bit deeper. That really piqued my interest here.
Steph: One of those things the journey of walking back onto the field hockey team as a second-semester junior. And I think you know the courage that you demonstrated their willingness to embrace your authentic self even when you know it seemed like a challenge. And you know you didn't know what the outcome would be. I would assume there were some pretty mixed emotions through that path. And then what would also like to talk a little bit about what we're talking about with the utter desperation of the family. So you know from that point of view, tell me more about the journey walking back on the field hockey team. What prompted you to do that and what did it feel like?
Shelley: Yes I jokingly called myself the walk-on who walked off. I was a recruited walk-on at the University of Michigan. But I was I was a walk-on and about a week into pre-season I was like I can't do this. And I just I don't the desire is not. The fire in my belly is not there. I feel like there's I felt like there was this I was doing it out of obligation and not that because I wanted to be doing it. And I just I couldn't fake it at that level, and it was a disservice to myself and a disservice to my teammates at the time. And you know certainly going into that conversation you know I hadn't quit you know any athletic venture in my life save for a basketball camp at some point in there. Kiki and Gaki had thought I'd lost my ever-loving mind that I quit it. You know I quit playing sports and then went to your sorority rush. So in that first month of college yeah two things they never thought I would do.
Shelley: But it was an important thing for me to have a sense of identity outside of sport. You know that. People think you know sorority rush. It's so shallow and superficial and but to be able to go through that process and just be Shelley. Not "Shelley the field hockey player" or just "Shelley the athlete" but just Shelley. And to be able to be accepted on those grounds. Really important for my sense of identity. And then once that had gotten squared away, really a day didn't go by when I didn't think about field hockey. And you know wonder what if? That you know I knew I needed to stop playing when I did. And I was helping at St. Stephen’s field hockey camp one summer and Cindy Gough who was the AD at the time knew me from when she was at Kinkaid, and it was after evening session. I was just kind of standing outside the gym and near the field hockey field.
Shelley: And kind of lost in thought. And she came up to me and asked if I missed it. And so I think for the first time, I had externalized all of my internal thoughts. When I said not a day goes by when I don't miss it, that put me on the path, and I think that was the summer before my junior year in college. So having that in the back of my head.
Shelley: And then was having some knee problems and had both knees scoped and after the surgery, the physical therapist asked me Well you know what type of shape do you want to be in? Now, what do you mean? I want to get well.
Shelley: But he's like "no no no." I mean you know is it just everyday activity? Do you want to be able to run a 5 K, a marathon? And another significant step forward was I want to be able to play Division 1 field hockey again and just that his response is "OK." That there wasn't any you know "what if" or "but" or you know any doubt that it was he just said "OK" and his OK led to my OK of going after that and.
Shelley: Yes. There's a kind of significant moments in meeting with the coaches field hockey coaches.
Shelley: So I think it was starting to feel like camp was sophomore year because I had surgery on my knees that spring break. And in the following year in the winter when the spring season was starting, reaching out to the coaches and having that conversation with them kind of the back into the conversation of wanting to give this another go. Well yeah, I kind of think so. Yeah, what was the original question for just that journey?
Steph: Yeah. What did that journey feel like you know? How did you how did you navigate it and why, why was it significant for you? I mean in and of itself making that transition back from kind of being a normal student so to speak to being a DI athlete is not a standard second-semester junior year decision. Most people are grappling with what major to choose.
Shelley: And then another kind of significant part of that process is with sorority officers. They are their terms are the calendar year as opposed to the academic year. So the fall of my junior year, I had just finished as serving as new member educator, and they were doing the slating process, and I was approached to be I don't know if it was like Rush chair or like sorority president, but you know a big position in the sorority. And they approached you about it and it was that moment of I can I can take this position and kind of go down that path and continue doing the sorority stuff or I can kind of do the safe path at the time or I don't think I'd reached out to the field hockey coaches at that time to kind of you know I had it in my head it was there I hadn't put it out to people you know put it out there to kind of own it and sharing that with the current sorority president at a time. You know I'm honored to be asked. And you know I wish I could serve the sorority in that regard.
Shelley: I would like to walk back onto the field hockey team, and I don't you know I don't think it's possible to do both. So that you know that sense of risk that I've turned down this incredible opportunity in order to pursue that. So that was another big important moment.
Shelley: And then I think another kind of part in that process is that I played for maybe a month or so. Before I told Kiki and Gaki and other people in the family, I knew I needed to do it for myself and to you know to get up at 6:00 in the morning for a 7:00 a.m. to 9 am work out in the dead of Michigan winter.
Shelley: So when it's cold outside when it's dark outside to be able to get up out of bed and go through that sort of work out to test myself that it "do I want it badly enough to want to engage in that"? And so you know I had to test it out for a month or two and then where you know I was like yeah this is it. I had kind of reached I had achieved my you know I knew that I was doing this for myself. That everything else you know when you break it down this is kind of the gnarliest you know kind of behind the scenes blue-collar aspect that you know if you strip the student-athlete experience down to this. Where you're just training and there are no crowds there's not gear and you know in a gym in the cold Michigan winter, if I can be excited about that and want to do it under those conditions then all those other trappings are just icing on the cake but I needed to make sure that that cake was there and ready to go.
Shelley: And then another one of my good friends in the sorority had been studying abroad in the spring. So, Michelle Lorenz, I think you remember her. So she was in Australia, and we had arranged to live together out of the sorority house. So that sophomore year in junior year, I live in the sorority house. And that as seniors, we were going to live out of the house together. And so, I had moved into the place over the summer during spring term and stayed there with Jamie Robbins and Lindsay Babbitt. And then you know at some point during pre-season, Michelle was moving her stuff in and we had you know we saw each other for like the first time in gosh nine months and up eight or nine months, but I had been you know training and playing field hockey. And just you know when she walked in the door you know that just that look on her face of oh my God you know it's not this discontinuity between who I was with a sorority person and who I was as a field hockey player. But yeah it was just kind of an interesting moment where she was like oh my god. Yeah. So I walked back onto the field hockey team and just that moment of incongruity for her. You know that she knew that I had that field hockey background and you know she was a really competitive high school athlete, club soccer and sorority flag football player of course.
Steph: And I'm sure there's a difference to that she was responding to first and I'm sure there was a physical difference as well.
Shelley: Yeah yeah yeah sure sure sure. Yeah. So that I just remember that moment distinctly where it was kind of like both of those worlds you know that I could be, I was "Shelley, the person" and then the "Shelley the athlete" was a secondary thing to her. Yeah.
Steph: So you felt like it had come full circle you had to explore that for your needs to be "Shelley not just an athlete" and then were able to marry those two things in the context of your experience at Michigan.
Shelley: Yeah. And that you know when I encounter you know when I embarked on that segment of my athletic career I knew exactly what I was missing. That I wasn't burned out.
Shelley: I was like oh you know I can't wait for the end of it because I knew that it was sands through the hourglass that I only had so much time, precious time, where I was going to be this fit you know and to be a part of a team and to be able to wear the block M and to compete for the glory of Michigan athletics.
Shelley: And you know a lot of you know what I saw with a lot of teammates either teammates or just fellow student-athletes that it was just it was a job for them, but for me, it was a fire. It was a hunger; it was a passion. And I just I felt every single day I felt so grateful for the opportunity that I had and that there was a very limited window of opportunity that I had to take advantage of it.
Shelley: And you know I think I'd probably go so far as to say that the two years that I had you know walking back on as a junior and then playing until I was a fifth year I would take those two years of field hockey experience over you know if I had done four years. You know starting with my freshman year and going through and graduating with my recruiting class. Just the quality of that experience and me being right with it, me doing it on my own terms and just with a very healthy mindset.
Steph: Yeah I think this it's interesting to hear you talk about it in the context of all the things that we've talked about here in something that feels very parallel to me and maybe I'm drawing the association. Maybe you have already or you know I'm grasping at straws to be any of these but it seems very similar to how you have come to in the space of acceptance and comfort and gratitude in your in your personal and professional life now in that there have been times where you have walked away from things or that things have walked away from you your immediate control.
Steph: In that, you know sometimes it's not right for us when we want it to be right and that sometimes it takes work to be done and to then come back to it. And in those moments, that it does represent itself that you know it has, you are then in a place where emotionally and psychologically or even spiritually to some degree you're willing to accept the situation on the situation's terms.
Steph: And that there is an amount of gratitude in doing that. The other piece that I kind of wanted to come back to you was this how did you get to the point where what was the question actually "what was the bravest thing that you've done and how did you find the courage to do that brave courageous or vulnerable thing?" and the bravest thing you did was you know establishing independent relationships with each of our family members if memory serves here. And you were saying that what came from that was utter desperation not necessarily that it was utter desperation that brought you back to field hockey.
Shelley: But yeah but desperation and frustration with that place. Where it was you know every family has their issues and you know I know that you know with our family it's you know it can be a lot worse, but it could also be a lot better. Like why can't we spend 15 minutes together without someone blowing up and you know just kind of shitting on the whole situation? And you need to be yeah I just it seemed it seemed tenable, but it seemed like we should be able to do this. And so to accept my responsibility in that situation. Yeah. So it was just you and I this is I want yeah I just I wanted I wanted more. And yeah I wanted a healthier.
Steph: In the way that. Yeah. I mean it's just it's fascinating to me how strangely parallel these two things are. But the you know that there's a lot of you taking care of the things that you could take care of that you didn't you know for all intents and purposes you hadn't made the team. Right? You had to make the team that spring you had to take a leap of faith after your surgery. I feel like I'm going to set this goal and try to make this team and I'm training in hopes of that. But I don't know whether we're going to make the team, so I'm just going to take care of what I can take care of. I think that's the control that controls and that was something that we learned from Marcia in our experiences on the Michigan team. But things that you've applied to you know your training to courageously come back and try out for the team. But it's not like you just drop in and try out. And the same thing with your family relationships, you don't just drop into them and that they're good. You have to work on them as you do. I mean having to train on your physical abilities but there are there are two different things.
Steph: You know physical training as we've talked about a little earlier is one thing but kind of emotionally training. How did you, utter desperation, and the tools that you worked on with Kathleen to be able to control the controllables on your side? What are those things? What tools did you use there?
Steph: Were you able to draw from control the controllables on the mental side from the previous experiences to this kind of emotional challenge?
Shelley: So you know being able to know what it is that you're feeling so physiologically. You know where you know if you're angry, if you're sad, if you're frustrated, if you're scared, where do you feel it in your body? And being able to know what it feels like so that when you feel it, you have a better sense of awareness. That with athletics, it's you just shut it down. You know are you hurt or are you injured and that you just shut it down so quickly and you know put it away. That sort of mindset can't help but steep into your personal life. And so getting back into the habit, not the habit but the skill of being able to identify "what am I feeling"? "What does that feel like?" "And why am I feeling that way?" And then understanding what the trigger is. That you know, the two of us can experience the same situation. And it might trigger me, but not trigger you. And so realizing that it's a choice to get triggered.
Shelley: And that that trigger happened so quickly that it doesn't feel like a choice. It just feels like someone has flipped your button, you know pushed your button. And so being able to know it. You know I describe it just like situational awareness on a field hockey pitch. Is from a tactical standpoint, You know, if your numbers up or numbers down or you're trying to get the ball outside of your distance of 25, or you know penetrate inside there you know you're offensive 25, that you have certain, you practice it. You know when a situation is happening. You practice it. You have tools, certain plays that you're going to run in those situations. And so being able to apply those outside of the game and more to an emotional standpoint it's you know is this the situation where I tend to get triggered? Is this the person? Is this the scenario? And this is what tends to happen. And this is how I tend to respond. And so being able to kind of diffuse it, make it more patent and to dissect it. And to realize that that person you know may or may not intentionally be doing that. More times than not, it's unintentional. And so seeing it for what it is, and being able to kind of take, take the power back, of understanding it, cognitively as opposed to emotionally. Of you know being more mindful in that moment. So you are able to respond mindfully as opposed to reacting emotionally.
Steph: Wow. Yeah.
Steph: I think that that it's funny we've had this conversation many times before but you describing it this way it's almost as if we're looking at game tape. Yeah. It's almost as if you review the situation. I mean I am I'm a firm believer in you know the answers and the seeking and you talk about you know dissecting it.
Steph: And I think there's a big difference between dissecting it and ruminating and I think that's an important distinction that the dissecting it is the cognitive understanding of seeing things as information. You know a therapist that I've worked in the past using emotions by taking the power out of the emotions and saying emotions or information in and of themselves. And that it kind of allows you to look at it from more of a cognitive level rather than an emotional level and that it is kind of like reviewing game tape and say OK this information that came from that situation. This is the outcome of that. Now how do we strategize going forward?
Steph: And I think another part of that that you called out or kind of shed a little light on this is being able to look at it in a from a little bit of a distance or to be able, to be honest in the appraisal of the situation are important things and in viewing it as if you know you're reviewing game tape. Your perspective in this situation, you know how you see it play out on the field is different than the perspective that you see it when you're seeing it on game tape. It's your bias of your perspective influences the way that you've synthesized that where you get to the point that on a game tape if you're looking at it from a different perspective with a coach or you know a partner and synthesizing it.
Steph: I think it certainly helps. Provide new information or a different perspective and perspective used in many ways here literally and figuratively. And so I mean I could talk about that stuff for a long time.
Steph: The last thing I wanted to wrap up, but I think you know I just want to get back through what we've talked about here and call out the things that were milestones for you. And really you know what I think we've talked about in terms of our experiences being student-athletes and you know now retired student athlete has been and ever were's. Part of part of the purpose of this exercise and the sharing of these stories and asking of these questions is to be of service to one another. To kind of be a team to one another of you, what does it look like when you're trying to exert the toughness that we have in the past in the way that you deal with real life now. And I think it's the theme that I see is developing that toughness through the lens of the emotional or through the emotional context not necessarily the emotional lens but developing you know our emotional muscles and our ability to synthesize emotionally. And I want to call up the milestones that I heard from here as we're talking through these in the journey that you've taken you know to be living the authentic self and to be living by that living by and practicing the core values that you acknowledged earlier. I think all these milestones kind of illustrate that and they're both athletic and personal. You know even throughout the time you were a very committed athlete.
Steph: And that one of the key milestones for you was quitting sports altogether. The idea of developing your whole self.
Steph: To understand who you were outside of just an athlete. Honesty and the Authenticity that you illustrated when Coach Goff asked you if you missed it and the kind of degree of trajectory change that started to happen there leading back to the walking back on at Michigan.
Steph: The faith that you have embraced in training to walk back on realizing the gift and understanding that the appreciation you had for being a part of that team and then to the pinnacle of that realization and being a part of the first big championship for the field hockey program and then where that led you in your personal life and your professional life of being able to pay that forward to some degree in working at the Leadership Academy,
Shelley: Being the teacher and coach and living that passion and helping to encourage others to kind of welcome and embrace and live their authentic selves and to understand who they are and how they can operate at that and become their best selves. You are there do you think there are any other milestones that you want to call out that I haven't hit on.
Shelley: Yeah I mean the stuff with the family and just kind of reclaiming ownership of those relationships.
Steph: I think this is this is certainly exciting for me and I want to say thanks again for spending some time on your long weekend. while you're in a zen state of mind to join me exploring this stuff and sharing your story and being open and honest and authentic with us.
Shelley: You're most welcome. I wish you the best of luck sister. I think this is a great idea of how people can take what they say into the mindset of you know just rub some dirt on it. You know when they were athletes and how to take that approach and appropriate it in a healthier mindset. You know that it's a kind of a tongue in cheek sort of thing and that where you know rubbing some turn on it making it feel better but doing so through ways that are through vulnerability and authenticity and you know much much healthier from an identity and mental health standpoint.
Steph: Well thank you, sister. And I'm sure this won't be the last time that we hear from you. And we appreciate your time.
Shelley: You are most welcome you too.
